Al-Ahram Weekly Issue No. 244 26 Oct. - 1 Nov. 1995
Published in Cairo by AL-AHRAM established in 1875

The coming parliamentary elections promise a higher Coptic profile. Pope Shenoudah III, head of the Coptic Orthodox Church, has been urging Copts to greater political participation, but insists this should be on non-sectarian lines. Dina Ezzat speaks to the Pope and, examining Coptic chances in November's ballot, finds out they remain disproportionately small

A change of spirit

A small number of Copts are planning to run for election. Are you satisfied with this response to your call or were you hoping for greater participation?
The call was for Copts to register their names on the voters' lists, so they could cast their ballots in the election. This is the main form of political participation.
Copts have indeed showed a good response to that call, despite many obstacles put in their way by the administrative bodies and the vicious circle of bureaucracy. For example, when many people went to register, one difficulty they found was that although they lived in Cairo, the addresses on their identity cards were those of their home towns [election regulations require people to vote in the constituency covered by their identity card address]. But in any case, there has been an obvious increase in the number of Copts registering to vote.
As for Copts running for election, this has to be done either independently or through political parties, and it really depends on the political parties. Naturally, each party makes its own electoral calculations on the basis of which it decides - legitimately - whether to nominate Copts and where.

But during the registration period, some Copts have complained that the registry clerks put obstacles in their way. What did the Church do about this?
Well, this is the situation, we have to deal with. On the one hand, the leadership is expressing good will and, on the other hand, we have the executive bodies making problems.
It happened quite often that a Coptic citizen would go and register his name but would not get his voting card on the same day. Of course, not everyone has the persistence to keep going back to the registry office two or even four times to collect the voting card. And when the person fails to collect his card, the office either does not deliver the card at all, or issues it to someone else.
Actually, some Copts are registered on the voters' lists but they don't know it. So, I have advised Copts to check whether they are registered or not, and to collect their voting cards if they are.

The number of Coptic candidates will be around two per cent of the total number of nominees, so their representation in parliament cannot possibly exceed that percentage. This is extremely disproportionate to the number of Coptic citizens. What should be done?
Let me say that many political situations need time and patience until they start to change gradually. Now, what really matters is to have some Copts getting into parliament through the ballot box and not by appointment. As Copts get more familiar with the election process, they will gradually gain more seats in parliament.
And Copts are not only interested in getting Copts into parliament. They also want to see some of their Muslim friends there, friends who are trusted to champion the Copts' needs and causes.

And yet Copts have to put up with specific problems such as restrictions on the restoration and construction of churches. Don't you agree that it would be better if a number of parliamentary seats were reserved for Copts so that they could voice their own concerns?
We cannot approve of this system because it goes against the freedom of people to elect their representatives. Moreover, Copts who get elected are not in parliament just to represent Copts; they are there to serve the entire nation.
As for problems like the construction of churches, I think it would be better to have these matters raised by Muslims than by Copts.
When Copts run for election and hardly get any votes, what can they do? I think that what we need is a change in the spirit that causes this attitude, and this needs time.
I believe that national unity is the answer. Were voters to elect their representatives on National unity is much better.
Factionalism will drag us into many problems that we are better off without. Given that we are living in times where extremism is taking a serious toll, it would be unwise to make an additional contribution to sectarianism.

But reserving seats for Copts is not necessarily a call for sectarian strife. And the Copts' sense of frustration that their problems remain unsolved is not good either.
The state does not wish to start a situation that could evolve into the Lebanese style of political representation whereby parliamentary sects and cabinet portfolios are distributed among the different sects in certain proportions.

The lack of Coptic participation in politics over the last few decades has been attributed to a traditional Coptic passivity. What do you think?
This attitude is common to all Egyptians, Muslims and Copts alike. And this is shown by the results of previous elections. What does it mean when a winning candidate gets 2,000 votes in an electoral district of 10,000 or 20,000 voters? It means that Egyptians are not voting. I really think that this lack of interest in political participation should be considered in its full dimensions instead of repeating this assertion about the passivity of Copts over and over again.
And let me add that if Copts are being passive, it is because passivity is being imposed on them. When Copts run for election and hardly get any votes, what can they do? I think that what we need is a change in the spirit that causes this attitude, and this needs time.
I believe that national unity is the answer. Were voters to elect their representatives on the merit of the candidate's political qualifications, rather than religious affiliation, things would change to the better.
During the old days of Saad Zagloul, a Copt would run in a mainly Muslim district and win. The opposite was also true. But now Copts feel that their Muslim brothers will never vote for them, so they say why bother if we have no chance. And it is not just the parliamentary elections. The same thing happens in elections for municipal councils, professional syndicates and many other bodies.

Some Copts link this apathy to the late President Anwar El-Sadat's action against you, when, shortly before his assassination in 1981, he exiled you to a desert monastery.
It was not just me who had to undergo this experience. Other politicians, journalists, university professors and Muslim clergy went through the same ordeal. But those days belong to the past and what happened to me then has little impact on the way things are going now.
The attitude we are talking about did not start then. It had been there before September 1981; Copts were hardly ever winning elections.

The blame for Coptic apathy is sometimes placed at your door. Your critics claim that you deny other Copts the opportunity to speak up because you want to remain the Sole Coptic spokesman.
Let me respond by a simple question: what power do I have to prevent anyone from becoming involved in politics? Anyone is free to nominate himself or join any political party. And I do not know of anyone who can claim that I stood in his way when he wanted to take up politics.
For years, I had to put up with these unfair accusations. But I have never stopped any Copt from speaking about Coptic affairs. There have been so many problems, why didn't they speak up? And those who have access to the press, where they attacked me personally, why didn't they speak up about the problems of Copts?
Every time I speak up, they ask why I involve myself in the politics and why don't I leave it to the seculars. But if I do not speak, the seculars do not speak either. They ignore the problems and act as if they were living on another planet.

Yet, some critics claim you use your religious authority to keep those involved in politics under control. For example, they say that all the candidates in the coming elections came to you to ask for permission. Is this true?
No. Why should anybody seek permission for something which is their right. Those who came here wanted the papal blessing. They simply wanted me to pray for them. I have always encouraged Copts to take an active national role, but what can I do if the doors are closed in their faces?

Some believe that radical Islamist candidates have a chance of winning a fair number of parliamentary seats. How would that affect the Copts?
These speculations suggest that the extremist trend is popular. In any event, we wish everybody well. We are not battling against anyone. Throughout our history we have survived very harsh times. And we are still surviving. And God who saved us before will save us now. So, we fear nobody.

Interview by Dina Ezzat

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