Candid talk

Shahida El-Baz is a specialist in political economy with a Master's degree in law from the Institute of Social Studies in The Hague and a PhD in political economy from London's School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS). El-Baz worked for the National Centre for Social and Criminological Research from 1963 to 1991 and entered the private sector as an independent consultant 10 years ago. She has examined questions of gender, civil society, children in difficult circumstances and development at large through the lens of political economy for the UN Children's Fund (UNICEF) as well as other local and international institutions. She wrote the first comprehensive comparative study on NGOs in the Arab world, a study of 10 countries that was presented at the follow-up to the First Arab NGO Conference in 1997. El-Baz is the author of the National Council on Childhood and Motherhood's (NCCM) Strategy for the Protection and Rehabilitation and Integration of Street Children in Egypt.

How did you become involved in the study of street children after having started out in the realm of political economy?

Baquer Namazi, an Iranian who was head of UNICEF some years back, had enlisted me to carry out an impact evaluation of UNICEF development projects for women in five governorates in Egypt. The report was not published because it was sensitive, but that was my first experience with UNICEF. Baquer then took me to a conference on street children in Florence. I knew nothing about street children, and at the time I was just thrown into it. At the conference, they asked me what I thought about street children, and of course, the only thing I could do was look at it through the lens of political economy. So that is what I did. I wrote a report soon afterwards, entitled Children in Difficult Circumstances: A Study of the Institutions and Inmates.

What was your particular approach to this study, and did you discover anything that was a departure from past studies on the subject?

I had the opportunity to study children in institutions -- juveniles, what they call delinquents. I went to the institutions and looked at the Egyptian probation system. Perhaps more important, I went to where the children come from -- their homes and families. Most research done on street children to date has been descriptive and has failed to analyse the root causes of the situation.

What did you make of the institutional context?

The probation system in Egypt is theoretically fantastic but is not efficiently implemented because of a lack of resources and training.

Should all street children fall under the mandate of the probation system?

No, and that is the problem. Street children in Egypt are seen as a legal phenomenon rather than a socio-economic one. They are regarded as vagabonds and criminals, and that is why the authorities treat them like chickens. We need to look instead at the child and ask why he is the way he is. The emphasis should be on rehabilitation rather than punishment.

And the general public, do you perceive problems in how they view street children? Is there a lack of education and sensitivity?

Street children are despised by the general public and not treated with respect, which makes the police in turn treat them as criminals. They are routinely insulted, beaten, even pushed into situations of sexual and drug abuse. Historically, Egypt is not alone in failing to view children as complete human beings.

What of child labour? That must be addressed in any discussion on street children.

Yes, both child labour and education. But we must first tackle the root causes of these problems. Both are development issues and therefore are strongly affected by the process of globalisation. One of the impacts of globalisation is the creation of social polarisation. The majority gets poorer while the minority profits. This creates a duality in education, in health care -- everything. As basic public education gets too expensive for families, many children are left out. In a given family, perhaps a few of the boys will get to go to school, while the rest will have to resort to labour on the street.

So this is how political economy can play a role in creating the phenomenon of street children.

Yes, exactly. And this brings me to what I perceive as the two root causes of the phenomenon: poverty and family disintegration.

Until now, has there been adequate attention paid to the question of street children in Egypt?

Isolated initiatives. With the launch of the report and the programme, we will have a comprehensive national plan, one that is a departure from the standard approach of addressing children through the legal system. The government has many resources to address the problem, and several ministries have mandates that can be used to deal with the problem.

Which ones?

The Ministry of Interior could issue identification cards that would give children certain rights. The Ministry of Health could do its part. The Ministry of Supply could give them a meal. The Ministry of Justice could reform the institutional approach to children. There is a lot to be done.

And is it possible to keep these institutions more accountable?

Yes, with the United Nations' Convention on the Rights of the Child, things are changing. Everyone must do his part.

How does the NGO sector fit into the strategic plan?

They are crucial. The strategy suggests that NGOs do the bulk of the implementation. There are many who are doing important work. I think of Al-Amal, for example, which has different centres throughout Cairo and is doing very good work. We are all in this together.

Al-Ahram Weekly Online : 13 - 19 March 2003 (Issue No. 629)
Located at: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/629/fe5.htm