Ready for the world
Accompanying his president on the tour, Brazil's Foreign Minister Celso Amorim spoke to Nevine Khalil in Cairo about his country's vision for changing the commercial and political geography of the world
President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's five-stop Middle East tour comes at a sensitive period in this region's politics. Is there a specific reason for the timing?
President Lula took office 11 months ago and he has a very clear [idea] in this mind about changing the commercial geography of the world. We have had meetings with business communities in every country we visited. It's a trip with broad dimensions. We have worked a lot inside South America, we have worked with India and South Africa in the so-called G-3 and Lula visited Africa, and of course we are working with our traditional partners, Europe and the United States.
He was really keen to make this trip during his first year of office, and it so happens to be a very important time for the region. There is the question of the reconstruction of Iraq and the Palestinian peace process. Important events have been taking place in this region for some time.
How relevant is the situation in the Middle East to Brazil's foreign policy?
It's relevant for the world, and we live in a world that is feeling the effects of globalisation. We are affected not only economically, but also emotionally. The Brazilian people follow these issues very closely. With regard to Iraq, we took a very clear position on finding a peaceful solution through the UN.
On the peace process, we were very impressed, in a positive way, that the Palestinian Foreign Minister Nabil Shaath travelled eight hours to meet with President Lula in Cairo. Among other things, Shaath suggested that Brazil should be part of the task force that supports the Quartet. So, it's not only us seeking a role in issues outside our immediate region, but also other countries thinking we can have this positive role. And we are prepared to assume it.
On what basis did you choose the countries on this tour?
There were various reasons for the different countries. All five countries are important and have significant relations with Brazil. President Luiz da Silva's visit of course has political dimensions, but we also hope it will have economic, commercial and investment aspects too. There is an emotional link too, since there are 10 million Arabs in Brazil, mostly from Syria and Lebanon. So these were obvious countries to visit. Egypt is a leader in the region; the United Arab Emirates is a very important financial and economic centre, and Libya is a country of great opportunities. There are Brazilian companies which are interested in investing in Libya. When Brazil was in the Security Council, we favoured the process of suspension of sanctions against Libya at the time. So, it was a mixture of factors.
There was also the factor of scheduling; for example, we have a great interest in visiting Saudi Arabia but that will have to wait for another opportunity, as the dates were impossible to coordinate.
What is the vision behind President Lula's proposed Latin American-Arab summit in 2004?
We are trying to forge greater links between economic blocs and countries of the South, and this visit shows that Brazil is very interested. We have been part of the Mercosur economic bloc [comprising Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay] since 1991. We are trying to expand Mercosur and have associated countries in the rest of South America.
The Arab world is also a very important group of countries, which are all at different stages of development -- as is South America. The summit proposes an increase in financial cooperation, trade and investment, as well as technical and science cooperation in the field of agriculture, for example.
But what is the incentive for this cooperation, especially since many South-South bodies have failed because these countries see their interests with the developed world?
That's true, and we don't want to break the links with the developed world. On the contrary, we want to improve them, but we think that if we pull together we have a better chance of improving our relations with developed countries. Brazil and Egypt, for example, are linked in the G-20/ WTO negotiations and this shows our commitment to articulating our interests in pragmatic, concrete -- not ideological -- ways.
So, if we can state our case in international forums, why can't we try to make our relations closer too. It is much more concrete than it was in the past, that's why we are trying to work through different channels. We are part of the G-7, and we value that very much, but it is getting too big so we are now trying to work on a smaller scale.
How responsive have Arab capitals been to Brazil's invitation to the 2004 summit?
From the beginning we've had positive responses; it was very clear there is a lot of interest. Now, with the presence of the president, which indicates his personal commitment to the project, the reaction has been more enthusiastic. In several capitals, we've been hearing that "this is of strategic importance", "this is of great importance", and "we are enthusiastic about it".
The summit, which could be in early September, will be more about governments, although this will happen in tandem with the business communities.
Would economic cooperation be easier if the Arabs were united in a common economic bloc?
Well, that's up to the Arab countries to decide, but it would be easier [if they were a bloc]. That's what we are trying to do in South America; Mercosur is a customs union, we have negotiated free trade agreements with other countries, we are trying to finalise agreements with the whole of South America. But negotiations sometimes take a long time, so we are consolidating Mercosur, and at the same time we are trying to enlarge our negotiations with the rest of South America.
The same probably needs to be done in the Arab world, but it's not up to me to say how it can happen.
Are you concerned at all that the proposed summit could be seen as an affront to US economic hegemony?
Why? It's not against anyone. Brazil only has 25 per cent of its trade with the US, 25 per cent with Europe, around 22 per cent with the rest of Latin America, so our trade is very diversified. What we are trying to do is to diversify even more. Why didn't you ask if Europe will also be offended? It's the same thing.
It's in our favour, we hope; and maybe it will be in their favour too because if our trade grows, our GDP will grow, and we'll buy more from them as well.
Moving on to your bid for a permanent seat in the Security Council, how much support have you found for this in the Arab world?
This is not an obsessive subject that we put to every country, but it's naturally on the table. What happened in the past was that Brazil gave mixed signals about whether it wanted a permanent seat or not. So that left people uncertain about whether they should support or not support it. But President Lula's government has said very clearly yes, the United Nations should be reformed; yes, the Security Council should be expanded; yes, it must have new permanent members from developing countries; and yes, Brazil is interested. We have quite a lot of support from countries in our region, from countries in other regions, from present permanent members such as France, the UK and Russia.
Lebanon expressed its support in absolutely clear terms and in Syria we got a lot of encouragement. As for Egypt, because of its own interests, it's something we need to discuss in more detail. I believe the Arab world should also have a permanent member in the Security Council, and we would have no problem in supporting Egypt, for instance.
Can you comment on this government's foreign policy?
First of all, the [economic unification] of South America is crucial, not only economically, but also politically. But not because we want to exert influence or hegemony or anything like that, but because Brazil has borders with 10 countries, so we need a peaceful South America. And economically, Mercosur and the pact with India will make the whole of South America a free-trade area.
Second, we have been opening up to India and South Africa and the African countries in general, and now the Arab world. We also want to strengthen ties with China and Russia, but we're doing that of course without forgetting that the United States and the European Union are important partners, so we are also negotiating with them.
We hope to finalise an agreement of association between Mercosur and the EU by the end of next year and have just had a very successful meeting of the Free Trade Area of the Americas. In these discussions we got something which many people thought would be impossible because we have several difficulties with the US that even go beyond issues of trade. We were able to find a way forward that will enable us to reach an important agreement, while also preserving some of the sensitivities on all sides.
We are working on several fronts. In trade matters and international politics, monogamy is not a virtue.
Al-Ahram Weekly Online : 11 - 17 December 2003 (Issue No. 668)
Located at: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/668/fo2.htm