Taking control
Following two weeks of disarray on the Gaza-Egypt border at Rafah, Erica Silverman speaks to Palestinian National Security Advisor Jibril Rajoub in Gaza City
What is the role of the Egyptian delegation in the Gaza Strip?
The Egyptians have felt a responsibility to the Palestinian cause since 1948, and more than any other Arab country they have been committed to the idea of an independent Palestinian state. Since the unilateral Israeli decision to withdraw from Gaza, the Egyptians became involved in the process of helping the Palestinian Authority (PA) to reform and reorganise our security services.
The delegation contains about 30 people, among them 12 senior officers who are following up on ground training and reform. The security officers became involved in the details; even on the battalion level, there are Egyptian officers who accompanied our commanders during the preparation and the deployment of our security forces, before and after the Israeli withdrawal. Regarding the economic aspect, next week there will be a summit between the Palestinian and Egyptian presidents and for sure the agenda will include Egyptian assistance and their ability to help us in the future.
What is the status of negotiations over the Rafah border? Regarding the suggested reunification of Rafah, are there economic and/or geographic benefits to this proposal?
The Israelis withdrew unilaterally without cooperation or coordination, neither with us nor with the Egyptians. This created a problem for the Egyptians and for us when the borders became open and people travelled to Egypt, and Egyptians came to Palestine. Some of them for shopping, some of them for enjoyment, and some of them just to see their relatives on the other side, which is normal. We immediately started coordinating with the Egyptians as to how to control and organise the border because it is in our interests to convince everybody that we are responsible, and I do believe that we have succeeded to control the border.
For the issue of Egyptian and Palestinian Rafah, there are international borders that we respect. The Egyptians are not expansionist; they are not looking to annex land from Palestinian territory, and the same for us. The issue of relatives here and there is a humanitarian issue and we will settle this issue with the Egyptians through a ministerial committee, including the Palestinian and Egyptian prime ministers.
Do you have the necessary resources to implement and maintain a secure border crossing at this time on the Palestinian side?
For the time being I think we have the means to take measures for our own national security, but we should have a long-term plan. In the future we will need other resources.
Everything is under control, but to say that we can prevent people 100 per cent from crossing is not possible. Even the Israelis during their occupation could not prevent smuggling and infiltration.
What is your response to the Israeli demand of moving the crossing from Rafah to Kerem Shalom?
The Israelis have no right to transfer the passage to Kerem Shalom. We will never accept this. From the first moment, the Egyptians started intensive talks with the Israelis, the Americans, and the Quartet, and they will continue with these discussions. From our side, we will continue to negotiate to have the borders under Egyptian and PA control.
Do you welcome the presence of a third party at the crossing?
From the beginning we welcomed a third party, but the Israelis refused. The third party should have a specific mandate, and we should agree with the Egyptians and the international community.
Do you feel the Egyptians are in accord with your position?
I do believe that the Egyptians will not tolerate an Israeli presence on the border. Having Israelis on the border would be a security and psychological problem for everybody, and a target for everybody.
How would an Israeli presence on the border affect regional security and stability?
The Israeli presence means Israeli occupation. The worst threat to regional security and stability is the occupation. Having Israelis on the border means continuing the resistance. Neither the Palestinians, nor the Egyptians, nor the international community will tolerate an Israeli presence. Even the Americans from the beginning said that the withdrawal should be total and comprehensive.
As of today, what is the policy for crossing the Rafah border?
During the last few days, people went and came back as a result of the fait accompli that the Israelis created. Now we have a problem and we agreed with the Egyptians to open the passage for two days -- Friday and Saturday -- to allow those who are living outside with Palestinian nationality, including students, and those working abroad to leave, and to allow those with Palestinian nationality who are in Egypt, or are coming to Egypt from other countries, to return. This was arranged as a temporary solution.
Israel wants to close Rafah for six months. When would this begin?
We have no interest in being dictated to; we prefer to have an agreement. We believe that cooperation and coordination, rather than unilateralism, is the way to bridge the gap between us -- Palestinians and Israelis -- and pave the road towards peace, reconciliation and regional stability. We hope the Israelis will conclude that their total and comprehensive withdrawal from Gaza, and having only an Egyptian-Palestinian presence on the border, is to their benefit.
How is it to Israel's benefit to fully withdraw?
The Israelis have three concerns: the first is security, the second the demographic issue, and third, an official recognition by the Arab League of Israel's existence. The only way to meet these concerns is to recognise the existence of the Palestinian people and their right to self- determination. Two states for two people is the way for Israelis to ensure security; otherwise we will never raise a white flag to the Israelis, we will never stop the resistance, we will remain in a vicious circle. Coexistence is the only way to ensure Israeli security -- if they are looking for security -- but if they are looking for more settlements, or to expand existing settlements, that is something else.
After the Cairo agreement between the Palestinian political factions in March in which all factions recognised the existence of Israel, the truce was the starting point in a long process toward recognising the existence of Israel. If the Israelis want to continue with occupation it will never assure security for them. An Israeli unilateral withdrawal from Gaza that is not comprehensive -- that is without free borders, a safe passage between Gaza and the West Bank, an airport, a seaport -- means the Israelis are still occupying, and are a target for the Palestinian resistance, the very thing we are looking to get rid of.
Did weapons or Al-Qaeda operatives move across the Rafah border while it was left open?
We are working day and night to have a responsible authority with one weapon, one policy and one law. As soon as we finish the celebrations we will go to the legislative council to organise the distribution of weapons in Palestinian society. All the factions will be there and will participate in the deliberations.
Smuggling is against our interests. Over the last two days there were two clashes in which we used live ammunition against people who tried to smuggle weapons into our territory, and we will continue. For 38 years under Israeli control, everything was smuggled in, and they failed to prevent infiltration.
There is no base for Al-Qaeda here, and there is no place for Al-Qaeda in Palestine. We are against the means that Al-Qaeda uses, including their terror attacks on 11 September. We are committed to take all the necessary steps on the ground to prevent such individuals from entering our territory, through regional and bilateral cooperation with the Egyptians. No matter what the Israelis are thinking, this is our business and we are committed to it.
In terms of Palestinian preparedness for statehood, regarding your internal and border security, how close are you today to being ready to maintain an independent state?
As a result of the Israeli occupation and its measures and policies on the ground, we were in a mess in the past. Now we are meeting these challenges, and the Palestinian government is focussing on assuring security and public order. We have the resources and the motivation. Internal security is on the president's agenda and he will keep working on it until he achieves it. There is a national consensus in Palestinian society from the extreme right to the extreme left to have internal security and public order.
How will the Egyptian delegation help prepare Palestinians for statehood?
The Egyptians are involved in administrative reforms, economic and judicial reforms, and we have all the reasons to ask the Egyptians who are committed to helping us. We are looking to other Arab countries to assist us -- to Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, the Jordanians, and others -- to be involved in this process of rebuilding the Palestinian state. Without Arab assistance, from the Egyptians in particular, we cannot do anything.
What is your response to Israel's threat of impeding the coming legislative elections if Hamas participates?
Hamas is part of the Palestinian people. Hamas has the right to run for elections. Neither Israel nor anyone else has the right to prevent them from participating. Hamas is committed to reconciliation with the Israelis according to the idea of two states for two peoples. Hamas agreed to the truce last March. The ball is in the Israeli government's court, not in the Palestinians'. Hamas has the right to fight and act from inside the parliament in order to bring change through democratic means. Hamas is not acting to take over the authority by force, and if they have the majority we will salute them and give up power. This is democracy and we will respect and accept the results of the elections.
Israel has political parties that are not recognising the existence of the Palestinian people -- who are racist parties -- such as Effie Eitam [Knesset member for the Renewed National Religious Zionism Faction]. It is not our business to say who should run for the Israeli Knesset.
The mainstream, the majority of Palestinians, support a two-state solution. Hamas is a pragmatic political faction, accepting the truce, recognising the existence of the PA. I think it is a positive step by Hamas, and we should encourage this line. Having Hamas inside the Legislative Council will benefit everybody, and working from inside the council will lead to a national consensus towards reconciliation with Israel.
C a p t i o n : Jibril Rajoub
Al-Ahram Weekly Online : Located at: http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/762/re5.htm